Wednesday, August 5, 2009

Charles Manson: 5 foot 2?

As the 40th anniversary of the slaying of the LaBiancas, Sharon Tate, and her friends draws near the media has bombarded us with an abundance of specials and news reports on Charlie & the Manson family murders.

In each of this week's programs they have made a point to mention that he is 5 foot 2. Is he?

It was my understanding that this was yet another one of the myths of Helter Skelter created by Bugliosi and Gentry.

Am I mistaken? Is this license a fake?
TLB/Manson Family scholars please chime in!

Steven Kay (October 21, 1997):
[laughing] "Manson's 5 feet 6? Not a chance. Manson is 5 feet 2.
I guess they don't like the fact that he's a short guy.

Here's what Sandy & George had to say in response to his statement on their old ATWA site:

"Access Manson was incorrect in stating that Manson is 5 feet 6 inches tall. It now looks like Manson is actually 5 feet 7 inches tall. Our evidence to back this assertion consists of the last California driver's license held by Manson before his arrest in 1969. Reproduced below, the license lists Manson's height as 5 feet 7 inches.

More evidence that Manson is really 5 feet 7 inches tall can be found in the book Helter Skelter itself. Two mug shots of Manson, reproduced below, both confirm his height at 5 feet 7 inches. The reproductions here are not of superior quality, although the "7" from "5-7" can be seen midway down on the left side of the first picture, just before the "140" weight entry. We encourage interested parties to personally examine these pictures in a hardback edition of Helter Skelter. (If you do not have a hardback copy, please examine one in a bookstore or library, or buy a used copy -- DO NOT BUY A NEW COPY OF THIS BOOK.) Use a magnifying glass. Your examination will not only reveal a "7" on both mug shots, it will also reveal how both pictures were artfully cropped for the book so that the "5" foot part of the height entries (not to mention the "M" in "Manson") is not there, and thus Manson's real height is not disclosed.

One might wonder why the dispute over Manson's height is important. It is important because it clearly shows the willingness of the DA's side to present a lie and back it up with phony evidence or to omit evidence to the contrary. In this case, as we have said elsewhere, they lie about Manson being 5 feet 2 inches tall because such a height is so short that it is almost a negative superlative. They couldn't say that the monster Manson is ten feet tall, so they made him five feet tall.

One might also wonder that if the District Attorney et. al. would lie about this, how many other lies and ommisions of truth are contained in the fantastic "Helter Skelter" story of Charles Manson?"


  1. A.C. Fisher AldagAugust 5, 2009 at 4:52 PM

    As you will see from the picture of him standing with me, Charles is now about 5'4".

    Charles is about an inch taller, and I am 5"3". We were both wearing sandals with no heel. He has, according to friends that've known him for a long time, shrunk a bit with age, as everyone does when they get older. Perhaps he's wearing boots in the D/L photo.

    "Who cares?" you may ask. Well, as Flora points out, when there's one factual error, there might be more.

    Bugliosi FINALLY admitted that Charles has always had an environmental platform, in his latest interview.

    Regarding the recent rumors:

    No, inmates are not running an autograph mill in PHU. Nobody wants the trouble that would cause. People on the outside sometimes sell things that Charles has sent to them.

    No, other inmates aren't threatening Charles, beating on him, etc. Cons occasionally steal from him. They steal from everybody else, too. If anyone was hurting Charles, I'm certain that Hook would mention it.

    Charles is not in the Aryan Brotherhood. There are several AB dropouts in PHU. There are also high-level Mexican Mafia and other gangstas. Charles has not been ever involved in any "gang activity". He has no gang affiliations on his profile. The one fight in the unit was over a guy turning a fan on another guy during dinner, last year. Charles was outdoors at the time.

    Charles isn't hiding in his cell, or confined. He likes to sit alone and play music, draw, compose, write poetry, and write letters. He also likes company once in a while, and plays cards, chess and music with the other inmates. He was put into the SHU in '07 for owning a sewing awl that some over-zealous C.O. construed as a weapon. Not for protection. Charles doesn't need to hide from other prisoners. Everyone gets along pretty well in PHU. He likes solitude occasionally. You would too, if you had to hang out with the same 29 guys every day.

    Charles does not have prostate or any other cancer. He's fine. He has Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, which is what happens when you smoke unfiltered cigarettes for 50 years. This condition is exacerbated by reactions to cleaning chemicals and normal dust, which isn't filtered well in the prison's air system. He has breathing treatments PRN.

    As the 40th Anniversary of the Unfortunate Incidents looms, there will be more lies from the press and the prosecutor, who have to sell ad space somehow.

  2. Thanks AC!
    I knew you would help clear that up.
    The rumors certainly are flying this month.

    FYI, those were Sandy & George's words in the last paragraph.

    However, I do agree that Charlie's height was one of several myths from Helter Skelter.

  3. i havr alot of things he has sent himself

  4. LOL he's 5'2". NEVER trust a short person who tells you their height (A.C. Fisher Aldag). And a driver's license, ESPECIALLY issued 20-40 years ago is invalid as proof. I am 66" (5'6") and on my first license issued in the late 90s it says Im 5'8" BECAUSE THATS WHAT I PUT!!! LOL. They DONT measure you at the dmv, you could put that you are 6'1" 200 lbs and they DONT CARE even if youre 5'3" 120 lbs. You can even put that you are FEMALE when you are clearly male, they cant say a word to you. LOL. He's 5'2", MAYBE 5'3" on a good day.

  5. Manson is so obviously a really short man regardless of whether he's 5'2" or 5' 4". I agree with the entry immediately previous that people commonly exaggerate their stats w/out a questioning word from the DMV. I'm a woman who is 5'7" tall barefoot and taller than many men when I'm in shoes. So, if I call myself 5'6" or 5'10" no-one cares or questions.

    Whatever his drivers license of yore states, Manson is quite obviously a little guy. It's disgusting to think that this may have figured into his resentful psychology. People were slaughtered in part because of some short man's little napoleon issues!

    We need to focus less on the external and more on what makes a person a good human being. But, our culture so emphasizes the superficial...a woman's weight, a man's height, baldness etc. and we end up adding an additional burden to kids who already have hard lives for whatever reason.

    I'm not excusing anyone. But our culture helps to breed these Manson style monsters that come back to haunt us. This sort of sociopathy is nearly completely unique to western culture, especially the U.S.

    1. You must be living in an area of minorities/shorter than average people if you see a lot of men below 5'7". And yes, there is a striking difference between 5'6" and 5'10" men. 5'10" is at the 55th or so percentile, 5'6" is at the 10th-12th percentile. It never ceases to amaze me how much people like you go "OMG THAT GUY IS SO REALLY SHORT" when some guy reveals to be 5'4", then a 5'6" guy comes along and the same people would go "Oh, he's absolutely normal and not short at all and would blend in perfectly with guys 5'10" and above". I know cutoffs have to be made somewhere, but people, the average height is 5'9.5" here in the states, it's pretty easy to tell the difference of a 5'6" or even 5'7" man from a 5'9-5'10" man.

      Also, to the author, 5'2" MIGHT be a negative superlative compared to say 6'2" or 6'3", but not compared to 5'7" because that height was just below average (in the 1960s when average was just over 5'8" in the states). Being a 5'2" man isn't the exact opposite of being a 5'7" man. Yes, a 5'2" man may be noticed more for being short, but it's not like a 5'7" man experiences ALL the opposite effects a man as short as 5'2" would face since again, that man is STILL below the average.

    2. So, you shame short height and spew typical bullshit about 'napolean complexes', then go on and on about 'body shaming'.

      What a load of bullshit.

  6. whoever wrote this is full of crap because i saw a mugshot of him and he was standing next to a height chart and he was barely above the 5 foot mark.

  7. To damn bad that the DEATH PENALTY got over turned for the psycho!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  9. This ends all. He is 5'3" maximum.

    1. The original version of this you can see the ruler scotch taped onto the photo. Not at all proof, but taped on for reference. Also, these measurements are WAY out of scale.

    2. If one uses that height chart as a measurement in the way one would use the distance chart on a conventional map, Manson would be about 3.5 ft. tall. Something is surely out of whack with that photo.

  10. Why not harden the fuck up and listen to AC she knows him personally.

  11. John Bonaccorsi, PhiladelphiaAugust 19, 2012 at 7:02 PM

    This question is difficult to answer. The photograph linked by Anonymous in his comment of 4:54 AM, July 2, 2011, is in Helter Skelter and seems to have been what Bugliosi relied on for the statement that Manson is 5-2. The picture shows Manson against a height-chart, after his October 1969 arrest at Barker Ranch. The picture -- i.e., the chart itself -- has a problem: the distance between the four-foot and five-foot marks looks to be much more than a foot. The distance between the four-foot mark, which is the chart's bottom point, and the floor is not four times the distance between the four and five-foot marks. The chart, in other words, appears to be useless; it's hard to figure out what the police were using it for.

    As for the remarks that were posted at the old ATWA site and that were copied into the present post: those Manson mug shots seem simply to be captioned with information from the July 1967 California Driver's License. Note that they parrot the license's November 11 birth date, which is incorrect.

    If A.C. Fisher Aldag has accurately reported her own height in her comment of 4:52 PM, August 5, 2009, then she would seem to be right that Manson was about 5-4 when the picture she linked was taken.

  12. In 1969, I was 11 years old and 5'1" tall. We were living in Santa Susana (now Simi Valley) and my dad had to drive the pass road over the Santa Susana mountains to get to Northridge in the San Fernando Valley where he worked. He noticed that the Spahn movie ranch had a group of "hippies" (as my Dad called them) living there who were helping Mr. Spahn and taking care of the horses and renting them out for rides on those mountain trails. We went there on Mother's Day and another day a couple months later and rented horses. I will always remember the man who was obviously in charge because he was the first adult male I had ever met who I could look right in the eye without having to look up. He couldn't have been much more than 5'2. He was very polite and soft spoken and introduced himself as Charlie. What I found strange at the time was that the guy who helped with the horses and picked me up to put me on my horse (named "Follower" because I was youngest and that horse just always followed the other horses) was very submissive to Charlie and only spoke when Charlie spoke to him. His name was Tex and he must've been a full foot taller than Charlie.

  13. I know this thread is hella old, but I just saw a documentary last night on Manson (Manson's Missing Victims, on Netflix) and they have a jail photo of him with the height measurements. According to the photo he is 5'2" (maybe 5'3" at most). So take what you want from that, but it is an official jail picture with the height measurements next to him. Anyone can go watch that documentary on Netflix and see for themselves. Hope this helps.